Andreas Wittkemper - 2023-11-29 08:43:54
Good morning everyone

Mahmoud Abuawali - 2023-11-29 08:46:00
good morning

Elvis-Daniel Velea - 2023-11-29 08:50:26

Jad El Cham - 2023-11-29 08:54:04
Hi everyone, I'm Jad El Cham from the RIPE NCC. This chat panel is meant for discussion ONLY. If you have questions for the speaker and you want the session chair to read it out, please write it in the Q&A window also stating your affiliation. Otherwise, you can ask questions using the microphone icon.

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Leo Vegoda - 2023-11-29 08:54:26
Good morning

Leo Vegoda - 2023-11-29 09:01:29
We are about to start

Elvis-Daniel Velea - 2023-11-29 09:02:25
audio is again very very low

Alex Le Heux - 2023-11-29 09:03:05
Good morning Rome

Elvis-Daniel Velea - 2023-11-29 09:03:11
hey Alex

Tobia Castaldi - 2023-11-29 09:03:32
@Elvis-Daniel: better now?

Alex Le Heux - 2023-11-29 09:03:38

Elvis-Daniel Velea - 2023-11-29 09:03:59
not really. going to get my airpods to see if it’s better :)

Erik Bais - 2023-11-29 09:14:21

Elvis-Daniel Velea - 2023-11-29 09:17:42
hey Erik.. think the call for volunteers got really complicated. I would have made that call at the beginning of this meeting and would have voted Alex in at the end of the second session :)

Erik Bais - 2023-11-29 09:24:23
I see your point Elvis. but for the process it isn't a bad thing to take a bit more time to do a broader call for volunteers..

Elvis-Daniel Velea - 2023-11-29 09:24:58
and I like it that you took a step back and will do this at the next meeting

Leo Vegoda - 2023-11-29 09:26:51
Please put any questions for Marco in the Q&A tab. I will make sure they are read out for him to answer

Erik Bais - 2023-11-29 09:30:16
that is a valid point Elvis ... if proper automated, a new LIR ( already passed the UBO checks / sanction checks..). so it might be easy to have a request initial IPv6 allocation .. without human intervention ..

Elvis-Daniel Velea - 2023-11-29 09:32:19
it should also be possible to consolidate/transfer more easily given proper software

Elvis-Daniel Velea - 2023-11-29 09:32:30
and process

Leo Vegoda - 2023-11-29 09:49:32
Please put any questions for Angela in the Q&A tab. I will make sure they are read out for her to answer

Alex Le Heux - 2023-11-29 10:08:08
I think it may be relevant to point out again that this discussion is about address _assignments_ and not address _allocations_

emmanuel kessler - 2023-11-29 10:09:52
my inputs is to confirm the need of the LEA and legal about access to IPV4 IP information. how do you f

emmanuel kessler - 2023-11-29 10:11:00
how do you grant the legitimate access will be kept for legal needs to protect victims ?

Erik Bais - 2023-11-29 10:11:50
in my view, the only point for LEA's is the resource holder.( allocation level ) .. not assignments

Peter Hessler - 2023-11-29 10:12:02

Brian Storey - 2023-11-29 10:12:49
Probably very little. It depends on the type of network though. Enterprise, especially large actually take much more interest.

Alex Le Heux - 2023-11-29 10:13:21
0% in my case

Brian Storey - 2023-11-29 10:13:23
Scale of impact / capability for business vs consumer is very different

Alex Le Heux - 2023-11-29 10:13:45
even a significant portion of the BGP customers with PI+AS will not be able to respond in a meaningful way

Robert Scheck - 2023-11-29 10:14:00
+1 Alex

Peter Hessler - 2023-11-29 10:14:01

Brian Storey - 2023-11-29 10:14:18
but for ease we are contacts for all but sponsored space.

Alex Le Heux - 2023-11-29 10:15:57
@emmanuel kessler No one is arguing that information regarding the PA ALLOCATION holder needs to be restricted or has no more use. Law enforcement would still be able to contact the relevant ISP/Provider/LIR in the same way as today.

denis walker - 2023-11-29 10:17:51
@Alex but then they will need a court order on the LIR to find out who the end user is, which is now publicly available in the DB

Peter Hessler - 2023-11-29 10:18:09
making leas get a court order is a feature, not a bug

Alex Le Heux - 2023-11-29 10:18:35
@denis there are plenty of assignments registered where the assignee is registered as "customer-123" and the LEA would need to contact the provider anyway.

Alex Le Heux - 2023-11-29 10:19:38
and a significant portion of "bed stuff" comes from places that have just a single dynamically assigned IP that's part of a large assignment "DSL Address Pool Nr 3"

denis walker - 2023-11-29 10:20:02
@alex that is why the admin-c is supposed to be a contact with the actual end user

Brian Storey - 2023-11-29 10:20:43
What I do find though is that some businesses like that an assignment is publicly labelled as being associated to them, but there are others who don't.

Anecdotally (whether not this is the intention) some people do find seeing an association to an IP address to a business is validation that it is a legitimate connection attempt (of sorts).

Alex Le Heux - 2023-11-29 10:20:55
Perhaps LEAs can provide some actual data about how often the PA Assignment data is actually useful to them and they don't contact the Allocation holder at all.

emmanuel kessler - 2023-11-29 10:22:05
I will send comment through mail list

Dmitry Serbulov - 2023-11-29 10:22:12
Please read messages!!!

Sascha Lenz - 2023-11-29 10:22:13
I have yet to experience an End-Customer who reliably processes abuse requests if it doesn't impact their daily operations, and this is from the pov of an ISP in this case. tl;dr: End-User assignments are pretty useless in the grand scheme of things

emmanuel kessler - 2023-11-29 10:22:36
some LEA still use the access at RIPE level, indeed

Alex Le Heux - 2023-11-29 10:23:32
@emmanuel kessler Knowing what data they access, ALLOCATION or ASSIGNMENT data, would be very useful input

denis walker - 2023-11-29 10:23:38
effort on maintaining data is a technical issue

Jad El Cham - 2023-11-29 10:23:46
This session has now ended. The next session in the Main Room is Address Policy and it will start at 11:00 UTC+1 . More info on the RIPE 87 meeting plan: